Have at it....

I have recycled some of my statements from other threads:

This conversation should not be so much steel versus soft. Rather how will having an open mind and be willing to embrace change help the game we all play, share and discuss grow?

Darts in the UK are steeped in tradition. I think every pub and tavern has at least a board, there are large leagues and can people watch matches on TV. This is not the case here in the states and elsewhere.

I understand peoples positions, as I and most were once there. I do not understand the shortsightedness as we do not share the long standing tradition that you guys in the UK are part of.

What I do understand is psychology and how people react to something they don't understand or change in general.

It is quite common from those that do not have an open mind, to fear the change and bash it without having even tried it.

It's like when you are a kid and see a weird animal or bug. What do you do? You poke it with a stick or bash it with a rock.

No one and I repeat no one can make an intelligent argument on why they don’t like one over the other without having experienced both.

I'll quote Albert Einstein. The definition in insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

The game as we currently know it is not growing and has not grown in a while. The game that is coming from Asia is adding fuel to a fire that is much needed. You have large pools of prize money and new sponsors and manufactures wanting to market their products. This has brought different innovations and attracting younger players to the game. There are PDC players playing in Asia and Asian soft tip players playing in PDC matches. How can anyone possibly say this is a bad thing or not helping the sport?

I nor anyone here is saying soft tip are going to take the place of the game everyone on this site spend so much time with, discussing and sharing. It is spreading and helping to grow the game. In the end darts is darts. The soft tip version is just different. It still requires a great deal of skill and a different strategy. This is what attracts some of us to it.

There are a lot of videos of the game online. If you don't think it takes skill and nerves of steel to be able to counter the 9 mark your opponent threw, you are sadly mistaken. The targets are bigger, but you pay dearly for missing them if your opponent is not.

You'll hear people that don't understand or fear something different say things like:

1. The targets are too big. What I say is: they are also the same size for your opponent. If you don't match their MPR or better you'll be defeated just the same.

2. Bounce outs count! Well they also count for your opponent. How many times have you or heard someone say I would have won that match if my triple 20 did not bounce out.

3. They only throw at the bulls! It actually depends on the league/tournament if you are playing with d/s bulls counting at 50. Also in steel tip 01's they throw at T20, T20, T20 etc.. not much of a difference there. Little different strategy and like steel tip if you don't match MPR you'll loose. They also vary the games which I love as Cricket has to be played entirely different than an 01 game.

4. The noise would put me off. Are you sure? Have you tried it? What's the difference between the noise they make and a scorer yelling ONEHUNDREDEIGHTY!! I like that it lets you know what your opponent is hitting just by sound.

5. You have to pay to play! Um.. so. It helps the bar/establishment owner turn more of a profit and allow more of a payout to tournaments. Also for league/tournament play you can have it turned off.

6. The darts are too light. Have you tired a lighter dart? The Darts Live machines allow for up to a 25g dart anyhow.


Softtip has it place along side steel tip and if it helps our sport grow I'm all for it. Naysayers don't say it sucks unless you've given it a fair go. It's like complaining about politics without voting....

Nuff said.

I'll be the 1st one to admit.... I used to be "one of those guys". I grew up playing nothing but steel tip. Had never even seen a soft tip board. I said all the same stuff I still hear today. Size of the targets, bounce outs, paying to play, etc... I used to rip on a few of my friends that played soft tip. I was definitely a hard core steel tip player.

That all changed when I decided to move. The area I moved to was mostly soft tip. I decided to give it a go. It was either that, or sit home and NOT play. To my surprize it was actually really fun. As good as I was at math and counting, I found myself making errors and leaving the wrong outs. With soft tip you have a few more options as to how you finish an 01 game. It's not as easy as some steel tippers would think.

I always thought the huge targets would be simple to hit each and every time I stepped to the line. Indeed, this held true. I was pounding the triples pretty good. What I wasn't used to was my opponent also pounding them at an alarming rate. As a steel tip player I wasn't used to people tossing 7 mark after 7 mark, then back that up with a 9 mark. The constant pressure was incredible!!!! Much more so then I ever experienced in steel tip. I wasn't a push over either. I've played matches against the world's best in steel tip. But having someone fire off a game of cricket averaging 7 marks per round was something completely new.

I also found out the strategy in cricket is a bit different. If you're not up on points by quite a bit, things can change quickly in just a round or 2. No matter what size lead you may of had. Point, point, point. You have to do it as 9 marks are common at a high level of play.

For me, there was about a years worth of a learning curve. I went to the NY State Championships for the 1st time after only playing a month or so and got my butt handed to me. As good as I was in steel tip, just winning a big singles title months before, I just wasn't ready for top level soft tip. I was losing to players I shouldn't of. I go back to the constant pressure thing. If you're not used to someone hitting 7 marks every turn, it can get frustrating, even for the best players.

All in all, soft tip made me an all around better player. I borrowed the strategy from soft tip cricket and brought it over to steel tip. I was getting great results and taking out major USA players in different comps. I was also making a few $$$ playing soft tip. The money side of it seemed way better in my area.

I gave soft tip a chance years ago and now i love the game. I'm also happy to see it going in the right direction. Can you believe Paul Lim deposited a $130,000 check into his account last year? These guys are making some MAJOR money now. The entire game has improved as well. Heavier darts are allowed- up to 25 grams on Dartslive boards. Less bounce outs, and better equipment.

I'm actually excited about darts again. Dartslive has helped with that. It's something entirely new. They seem to be doing everything right and it shows. Major players are giving it a go. The current world champion being one of them. Things can only get better from here. For ALL of darts.

There is one complaint I have with soft tip. I hate, hate when people want to give you a fist bump after every good throw. I guess it's totally a soft tip thing. You don't see anyone giving Phil T a fist bump after every 180 he throws. Sometimes I find myself going to great lengths to avoid a fist bump after a good throw. After retrieving my darts I'll put my head down and pretend to be fixing my flights or even walk far away from the board without looking at the other guy. Just because I open up a cricket game with a 7 mark or an 01 game with a hat trick doesn't mean I want a fist bump. Before and after the game, not during.

Im with you on your last statement JD. I walk back after a throw and totally ignore everything around me. I have noticed here in my leagues that it is usually only the lower average players that want to fist bump.

I will say the odd "nice darts mate", but that is it. Most of the time I dont give a hoot what my opponent does. He isnt throwing my game so I dont pay attention to his.

Forgot to add that I love playing both forms of the game.

Havent been into soft tip very long, but I love it as much as I love my steel tip.

The peolpe you find that are against soft tip are generally die hard traditionalists that dont like change very much. Thats not a bad thing, because it means that the history of the steel tip game is safe.

i'm glad this discussion has came up , apologies for hijacking an earlier thread though lol . though maybe the title VS is a wee bit wrong IMO. i must say i have very limited knowledge of darts in both disciplines so i'm not sure that i have much a value to add to any discussion though i have a few thoughts and opinions on the subject.
i as perhaps many others have in a steel tip dominated country have dismissed soft tip at first. wrongly in my opinion as with gaining information on here i can see it is a valid and stand alone sport . i feel soft tip is the future and by future i do not mean it will take over steel tip as i feel that will always remain top in the UK and a few other country. what i mean is i believe that soft tip has all the right ingredients to appeal to the younger generation. bringing youngsters into any sport is the most important thing. get them hooked and next it's their friends, family and even the next generation after them.
we live in a time dominated with computers and specifically game consoles. now i my self have not played a games console since the sega megadrive i have noticed the way things have developed . if you look at things like guitar hero , everyone suddenly thinks the can play guitar or drums or whatever other instruments you get in the game. or take a look at the war games and people believe they have the skills and tactical know how to defeat the taliban. now say nintendo or sony brought out a soft tip board you can hook up to the internet with a camera and all of a sudden you have a game you can play against anyone in the world with on screen leaderboards and rankings in the comfort of your house. and the best thing is if your 12 year old son/daughter is good on this game are are actually good at the game! please do not think i'm trying to degrade the soft tip verison of the game we all love by comparing it to computer games because i'm really not trying to do that. i just believe that with the backing and branding of say nintendo/sony that would start a revolution bringing thousands upon thousands of new players into the game. some would stick to soft tip some would move over to steel all would become consumers of darts products and many subscribing to the likes of sky sports bring vast amounts of money into the sport.
i hope dartslive bring out a home board with wifi and software to do this so we can all get involved and play each other and others across the globe. as there is no need to have any games consoles involved to do this that just helps appeal to non darters.
this forum is great i'm enjoying it here with so many knowledgeable and helpful people on it. i would like to thank all the soft tippers out there for taking time to educated us not in the know.anyway thats my thoughts on soft tips for just now it may just be the ramblings of a mad man ,but hey it what i think

+1 from me Jamie. Open minds and flowing darts is what we all need! You are like my little brother from another mother across the pond.

thanks jake your a true ambassador for soft tips and have been extremely helpful on here and for that i repay you with a + 1
though my missus may not be so happy with you as i now want either the dartslive board or the emblem queen wireless board along with a set of soft tips for christmas
did you ever get the dynasty board ?
thanks again

No, I have not purchased the Emblem Queen. It does come with some Dynasty Soft tip darts though

Obviously, being in the UK I've played nothing but Steel tipped, but I have played soft tipped when on Holiday in the States no less than about 6 weeks ago and apart from the flashing lights and noise enjoyed it.

Would love to see it in the UK as it is something I could get into.

As far as fist pumps go - both my Monday and Tuesday teams do it whether we have a good or bad shot, it's a team bonding thing and a show of unity. Of course, it doesn't happen in Singles just Doubles and Trebles and we do it whether we hit 180 or a 3 as a "good shot" or an "unlucky, come on, look for more" gesture.

In Singles if my opponent hits a 180 or a good outshot I always hold my fist out on his way back and I've never been rebuffed as yet. I think it's part of the ethics of the game that you applaud an opponent for doing something good and a small gesture of holding out your fist is something I will always do.

I like your thinking there Jamie. I would actually like to purchase a dartslive machine or an Arachnid G3 to use at home, but the console game idea is magic.

I guess I will put my two cents in about soft tip darts. I am a novice when it comes to playing darts. I do it for shear pleasure in the comfort of my home. In my collection of over 110 dartboards I only have one soft tip board. The Arachnid 6000. It has 27 games with 123 options - including 5 cricket games. What's great about it is you always have someone to play. It has a play the computer feature with three different skill levels. Great tool for practicing. It also has a comic sarcasm option that will hurt your feelings when your game is in the toilet. It also of course will keep score for you. For all us lazy Americans that were not good in math in school. I choose this model because it gets good reviews for hardly no bounce outs and I am very pleased with it. I have used it for two years now with no problems. Give it a try it is very entertaining.

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I cant believe that you only have 1 soft tip board. lol.

I have played both, enjoy both. Support both.

chrisbamb wrote:

As far as fist pumps go - both my Monday and Tuesday teams do it whether we have a good or bad shot, it's a team bonding thing and a show of unity. Of course, it doesn't happen in Singles just Doubles and Trebles and we do it whether we hit 180 or a 3 as a "good shot" or an "unlucky, come on, look for more" gesture.

Completely different if it's your own team mate doing it. I was strictly talking about the guy you are playing.

Same here JD. I will bump with team mates but ignore my opponent.

i really don't agree with any fisting at all

jamie373 wrote:

i really don't agree with any fisting at all

Spit my coffee on my computer screen!

Bump! Would like to see more folks chime in. Please read all the above posts first.

My first set of 16g tungsten soft tips c/o Pure Darts just arrived two days ago. I couldn't resist the price. I still haven't tried it but I did bring out my 18g brass soft tips and threw some darts on my bristleboard today. Didn't seem to have a problem with the weight, especially that I throw 26g steel tips.

My concern is that if I started using my tungsten soft tips, I might enjoy throwing them and end up on the 'light' side of the force!

I love softip darts!!

Althouh I have never played it I find enjoyment in hanging poo on the people that do.

hahahaha

If they called it electric darts then I would prob giv it a go but SOFT TIP sounds too faggy as opposed to STEEL TIP, just ask any girl.

JOKES
I dont want to offend any of you girls

I will still give it a go, within this week, since I only throw darts for recreation, even for steel-tip.

But you do have a point, Dirty G, they should rename soft tip darts with an awesome name. Still no one can deny the power of the "light" side with JD's scoring.

DIRTY G wrote:

I love softip darts!!

Althouh I have never played it I find enjoyment in hanging poo on the people that do.

hahahaha

If they called it electric darts then I would prob giv it a go but SOFT TIP sounds too faggy as opposed to STEEL TIP, just ask any girl.

JOKES
I dont want to offend any of you girls

Ok, I know im adding nothing to this thread, but i just wanted to say that this has to be one of the funniest posts I've seen in a long time. I love this guy! (in a totally non-faggy way)

Thats good old aussie humour for ya. lol

is there any rules BDO or PDC against using soft tips in steel tip matches ? reason i ask is i want to play both and it would make sense to me to use the same darts. i know you can fit conversion points but they are heavier . is there a tip that can be used in both legally ?

good question Jamie, I have no idea. Cant think why anyone would want to use the softips to play steeltip though.

only reason Grip would be to use the same set-up . i don't know ,but would imagine that the balance point is very different between steel tip and soft tip.

jamie373 wrote:

is there any rules BDO or PDC against using soft tips in steel tip matches ? reason i ask is i want to play both and it would make sense to me to use the same darts. i know you can fit conversion points but they are heavier . is there a tip that can be used in both legally ?

Here are the PDC rules. Although it doesn't say I've heard the announcers say black points aren't allowed. See players using them though.

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