as i'm starting to group my darts a bit better, i'm seeing the darts bounce off each other a bit. some times they bounce out and hit the floor, some times the dart goes in the board but at an angle.

is this to be expected? i'm using standard flights and the barrels are quite slim i think. i bought some slim flights but they have the darts going in the board with the flight pointing downward.

are the flights taking up too much room, am i talking nonsense, is there a way round this?


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you could try using harrows quiver shafts or unicorn aliflex shafts they are both designed to bend out of the way . some people use spinning shafts too

so the flight is not so much the problem?

just personal preference . it's ok using a smaller flight to give you more room in the trebles , but if your darts aren't flying straight with slim flights you aren't gonna be hitting those trebles anyway.

I would guess that at least 80% of players use standard shaped flights so if it were a major issue then I think people would swap to smaller flights.

If you feel it affecting your game then as Jamie says, spinning shafts may be the way to go.

I have used them in the past and they certainly do the job of knocking the flight out of the way of a trailing dart.

the darts don't go in the board straight with the slim flights, and i think it's a bit soon to be looking for a lighter dart that may work with the slim flights better.

not sure how much it affects my game as i'm still a beginner, is it common?

yeah darts take deflections of flights and barrels , thats why you see pros switching to the 19's or 18's if there isn't much room left round the t20 .

yeah fair point Jamie, and I have been including 19s in my practising.

how people manage to get three darts in the bull i'll never know!!

And that is a fine example as when people do get 3 x bulls the darts are very rarely all straight.

well i can throw three crooked darts, so there's hope for me yet!

If your dart flies straight in you will get a lot of deflections and bounce outs.....so try the spinning shafts, try a kite flight or pear shape! Try all different ones to see what you like best!!!

had a quick go at it:

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must put the darts down!!

Nice one!

You could try some spinnere like Trev suggests, you may find them a little off putting though. Some spinning shafts have a very rattly feel and some are just like normal nylons but spin just enough like the Trulon rev Grips.

Thanks for the suggestions

Unfortunately we all suffer from deflections as it is a natural path when putting 3 darts so close together. I will say that although the flights play a part it not always down to just the flights as many would assume, although you could argue the bigger the flight the less room there is but to be fair the actual surface area hit by another dart is probably the same for most shaped flights as the following dart if thrown the same as the previous one will hit the X on your flight or the grip ring or even the stem. A lot of deflections are caused by the grip on your barrel. My Purists that have a level 5 grip would go off at all angles when they clashed due to how severe the grip was. This would not change with using different flights or stems and I know this because I tested it. I also had a real problem with grip rings as I would frequently put a dart down the ring (robin hood) and when I say frequent I mean 3 or 4 a week. This is due to me grouping them closely and the fact that I can throw the same line consistently. When I use a dart with a less aggressive grip the deflections are less severe and without the rings the robin hoods are less frequent. I also use both stems previously suggested. The Trulon Rev Grip has been my stem of choice for most of my darting life as it is so versatile as you can just replace the tip when they break but the company who make them are now struggling with their Die cast as it is so worn. This is affecting the stems as it is making the grooves that hold the flight so wide that you need a minimum of 100 micron flights to keep them from falling out every throw and to be honest mine fall out 1 in three throws so that's annoying. The tips don't spin but they do turn to help with deflections so they feel solid on the dart. I also use the Harrows Quiver and find them excellent, they are half the weight of most plastic stems but do a great job in bending to cut down your deflections, as you can see from the pic below. You can also cut these to your desired length so another added bonus.
You may also find that a slightly longer stem like the Harrows Quiver will help you as it might help you with the flight of your darts it's certainly worth a look.
I have added a few more for you to look at using all the stems mentioned.
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and finally the lovely Robin Hood lol
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thanks Big Gun for that, useful information.

interesting what you say about the grip on the barrel, as the one thing that I've thought since i got the darts two weeks ago was that maybe i needed a bit more grip!! as you can see from my picture aiming for the double bull, the last dart went between the first two and as you say, the barrels colliding caused the deflection.

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the trulon rev grip stems sound worth looking at, although if the flights are falling out all the time that's not great. i've stayed clear of the rings that grip the flight to the stem because there are many times when the flight on the incoming dart comes off as it hits one in the board, but this allows it to not get deflected all over the place.

Wonder why the guys who took over Trulon cant get a new die made, is it too expensive?


Did Harrows buy the rights to market the Quiver stems as I see old adverts for them and they are from Dunlop?

must be that it's too expensive to get a new die made. i suppose it depends how many they sell these days as to wither its worth it.

i've noticed winmau make a quiver stem to or so they say on the website. i think its just the same as the harrows one. same as most things in darts by the looks of it . someone somewhere makes all these stems and darts and you see them re-branded with many different names

So if I get some trulon stems, I need to get some 100 micron flights. I'm assuming that's a heavy duty flight?

Do they make any difference when you throw?

To be fair I think the only difference you would notice would be if you went to a 150 micron Rhino flight as i find they are quite a heavy flight and affect the angle of the entry as mine lay flat which I dont like as I am a flighter so mine go up and down in an arc shape. I feel that 100 micron is the best thickness for a flight as they stay in shape and last a lot longer but that is just my opinion. The other difference with the Trulon stems from those of old that i used to use is the lack of shine to the stem and this is because of the ban on fibre glass, as they used to put this in the stems to get the high gloss black shine but now it's banned. I had a lengthy chat with the oner of Trulon regarding all these issues including the red of the tip being more orangy red than pillar box red as the old ones were and he was very helpful. And it is down to cost and the number of stems sold as to why he wont replace the die castings, which is a shame really. Did you like the 3 bulls shot I play on the bull a lot so feel comfortable going for it.

Try the Rev Grips as they for me are the best stem on the market and I swear by them and if more of us use them maybe i can talk him in to replacing that die cast.

Sorry forgot to add the website for Trulon bits http://www.houseofdarts.co.uk/

Kev

Big Gun wrote:

To be fair I think the only difference you would notice would be if you went to a 150 micron Rhino flight as i find they are quite a heavy flight and affect the angle of the entry as mine lay flat which I dont like as I am a flighter so mine go up and down in an arc shape. I feel that 100 micron is the best thickness for a flight as they stay in shape and last a lot longer but that is just my opinion. The other difference with the Trulon stems from those of old that i used to use is the lack of shine to the stem and this is because of the ban on fibre glass, as they used to put this in the stems to get the high gloss black shine but now it's banned. I had a lengthy chat with the oner of Trulon regarding all these issues including the red of the tip being more orangy red than pillar box red as the old ones were and he was very helpful. And it is down to cost and the number of stems sold as to why he wont replace the die castings, which is a shame really. Did you like the 3 bulls shot I play on the bull a lot so feel comfortable going for it.

Try the Rev Grips as they for me are the best stem on the market and I swear by them and if more of us use them maybe i can talk him in to replacing that die cast.

Sorry forgot to add the website for Trulon bits http://www.houseofdarts.co.uk/

Kev

thanks a lot Kev. i'm going to get some of those stems and some 100 micron flights and see how i get on.

as for your darts...........suitably impressed mate! some great shots. it's like a collection of shots i can't hit!! you've clearly been playing a bit longer than two weeks!

had another 6 darts at the DB earlier.........

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got a long way to go.........

True mate but we all started where you are so your not alone there. Keep with the practice routines and in time you will be as accurate as I am. It takes time and dedication and I am sure you will be a great player. Good luck buddy and you know where I am if you need any further help or advice.

Stay Special

Kev

So the trulon rev grip shafts arrived.

First impressions were that they looked good, but seemed more flexible that an ordinary stem and that, as Kev mentioned, the gap to hold the flight is quite wide. Unfortunately they didn't have the 100 micron flights I ordered so I have my standard flights or a 150 rhino flight.

Had a throw with the standard flights, but the flights were coming out constantly, so put the 150s in. The darts were in the board facing left, right and down!! Never felt confident that the stem was straight or that the flight wasn't loose. That said, I threw a few 140s and 6-7 100s in the 40 minutes I used them, which for me is good.

Had another go today and they were all over the place. Swapped back to the old stuff and that was all over the place too!! Feel like I've gone backwards big time.

Confused!!

you could always use worn shafts... whenever you group tightly the flight from the initialy dart forces the flight off all incoming darts.

drawback is you gotta pick em up after you're done.

any flight w/ an included angle of around 60 deg will group better as well... (sigma, kite, etc)