I am not a brilliant darts player by any stretch of the imagination. I tend to average just a hair under 60 ppt. in 501. However, in my own local small-town league I am one of the top shooters, and I don't lose too many legs if I am shooting near my average (and I still win quite a bit even on a bad day).

Now, if I drive an hour down to Denver (the nearest major city to me) and play some of the guys down there, I find that I can still compete in the top division, and would be called a decent shot, but would probably be somewhere in the middle of the pack or just slightly above. And if I were to move to a place in the US where darts is more popular, say Boston, I wouldn't even be a blip on the radar of the actual good players there.

It seems like your own perception of how good you are at darts is definitely skewed by the area you live in, and the quality of the local competition. In order to know how "good" you actually are, you would have to travel all over the place to get a taste of what it is really like outside of your own bubble.

This got me wondering what the standard of play was like at different levels in the different leagues in other areas? What is the average standard in the top division (or other divisions) of your local league? What does it take to be one of the "big guns" in your area? What about to make the jump from pub player to someone who can make an impact at the tournament level?

As an addition, for our UK bretheren, how good to you need to be to play Superleague? Or make the jump to County?

**Note, I'm using 501 average in order to compare by the same standard, but feel free to post Cricket averages as well - that would be interesting as well for the US guys!

As an example, where I live, you could compete in the top division and win a decent amount of games if you had a 50+ average. With 57-60 average you would be considered one of the top shooters. As an amusing aside, we call that division "Masters"

In Denver, the nearest major city to me, a 60 average would put you above the middle of the pack in the top division, but you wouldn't be one of the top guys that people were afraid to play. The top handful of shooters there seem to be in the low 70's range from what I have seen.

If you really wanted to make a splash at the local tournaments, and have a chance to get through ADO regional qualifiers and compete at the national level, I would guess that a 70-75 average is sufficient. Of course, you'd probably get smoked by the true big dogs at that level.

In the main league I play in there is a player who could easily turn pro if he wanted to but he won't - haven't got a clue why unless it's big fish in a little pond syndrome.

I'm guessing lots of the better players in division 1 where I play are around the 60-70 average mark with a couple above that, but most are around the 50-60 mark. I'm around the 60-65 mark.

Down my way the top players ( county players ) will be hitting anything from 12 -24 darts per game, they rarely go over 24 darts.


Then there are guys who would average 24-30 darts but they can surprise you and hit a 15 darter and follow it up with a 30 or 40+ leg.

Then there's the married lads who are there for the craic and just want to get out of the house. Some don't even own darts, they just borrow some of team-mates.

Just a question then for you, Bigshow: if someone were to hit, say 18-21 darts a game pretty much every game, how do you feel would they compete against these County players? Would they lose most of their games? Maybe be somewhere in the middle?

Just curious... I'm a numbers geek and find all of this fascinating!!

Hi johnk,
I just read your post and it hit right on the head where I was at about 4 years ago. I was averaging like you around 60 ppda and playing at a very high level for our local leagues. Well I started thinking that I love this game so much why not find tourney a little drive away that is big and see just how good I really am. I only live 3 1/2 hours from Boston (very very good shooters there!!) I went to a comp for the first time thinking I would at least play in the finals top 4 for sure..hahaha That 1st year I got my arse spanked in the 1st round of every event I entered. I went home so dejected.. I could have done 1 of 2 things either stay in Vermont and just be the big fish in the little pond or I can practice every day and get better. I chose the latter and started shooting for about 2 hours every day. Went back down to the same comp the next year and finished top16 in mens single 501 and top 8 in singles cricket. Now 4 years later I still play 1 1/2 to 2 hours every day and make it to a lot of big tournaments where most of the big dogs know who I am now and I am avg. in a league I play in up in Canada right now around 80.68 ppda. If you love the game and want to get better then you have to practice, practice, practice...

Hat

Your right Hat - I believe you have to participate in the big tournaments also to grow your skill. Your story sounds alot like mine -big fish in little pond. You got to jump in the lake. I've had alot of different people tell me they would like to go to tournaments but don't think they are good enough yet. I think you need to go to the comps and play to really improve. I've been beat up pretty bad but it helped me improve my game alot

JohnK wrote:

Just a question then for you, Bigshow: if someone were to hit, say 18-21 darts a game pretty much every game, how do you feel would they compete against these County players? Would they lose most of their games? Maybe be somewhere in the middle?

Just curious... I'm a numbers geek and find all of this fascinating!!

The more you put yourself out there, obviously the more experienced you get, but the more comfortable you get in different situations as well. I win a lot of the close matches in my area because I've been in that situation more often from traveling all over for tournaments.

I love the numbers myself, but sometimes it's hard to compare. Some of the players in my area have a high top end, problem is they rarely find it. Other players have a lower top end but are consistently good and win more.

Longer formats, at least for me and I'd imagine others as well, allow for higher averages. Players get into the game, focused, loose and their brain stops wandering as much. In the UK, they play a longer format more often than we do in the states.

My league in Raleigh, NC has a handful of players that could win at tournaments. Only a couple of us really travel though. There are 550+ players in the league and most of them are strictly social. The top division is pretty competitive though.

Hey Robbie - are you going to the MLD event Friday in Myrtle Beach? I probably won't get there in time. I will look you up at ghost Friday night

JohnK wrote:

Just a question then for you, Bigshow: if someone were to hit, say 18-21 darts a game pretty much every game, how do you feel would they compete against these County players? Would they lose most of their games? Maybe be somewhere in the middle?

Just curious... I'm a numbers geek and find all of this fascinating!!

If you were to finish every leg in 18-21 darts then I would say you'd be classed inbetween the top and middle of the county players. The reason being...some days you could get beat in 13, 15, 15 darts and then the following week against the same player you might win 3-1 or 3-2 or even 3-0.

Robbie the Robot wrote:

The more you put yourself out there, obviously the more experienced you get, but the more comfortable you get in different situations as well. I win a lot of the close matches in my area because I've been in that situation more often from traveling all over for tournaments.

I love the numbers myself, but sometimes it's hard to compare. Some of the players in my area have a high top end, problem is they rarely find it. Other players have a lower top end but are consistently good and win more.

Longer formats, at least for me and I'd imagine others as well, allow for higher averages. Players get into the game, focused, loose and their brain stops wandering as much. In the UK, they play a longer format more often than we do in the states.

I understand you and agree with you, Robbie. It IS hard to get a perfect comparison due to other factors besides pure average that may have an effect on winning or losing (tournament experience, amount of bottle, etc...)

However, using pure averages should get you into at least the ballpark of a comparison. For example, if I were to move to Raleigh and join your league, it would be reasonable as a starting point to use my 501 average (or MPR in Cricket) to get an rough idea of what division I would fit best in. I could then "fine tune" my knowledge of where I should be after some experience playing in the league, and change divisions accordingly.

And that's all I'm really looking for here: that "rough" idea of where a person would fit in a given local area as determined by their ppt 501 average.

Bigshow wrote:

If you were to finish every leg in 18-21 darts then I would say you'd be classed inbetween the top and middle of the county players. The reason being...some days you could get beat in 13, 15, 15 darts and then the following week against the same player you might win 3-1 or 3-2 or even 3-0.

Thanks, Bigshow! That's the sort of comparison I was looking for. I completely understand that none of us perform at our average all the time. A person who averages a 25 dart 501 could be throwing 15-18 dart games one day, then 30+ games the next! But over the long haul, that person would probably fit into a competitive group with other 24-27 dart players.

Good post,
I basically big fish small pond but and a big but. Some of the players have played and done well in big tournaments in such places as Cleveland , Ohio and the State of Florida. Its always the unknown that interests me. I have played "B" players that are no where near as good as me and they have played outta their skin and I lossed. Now you beat me 3 legs to 2 doesn't mean much too me. Now you beat me the best of 15 or 17 legs than you are the best for that day. But ya better believe that will get me on the practice board asap.

I would also think that American Players would have the edge in Cricket Just IMO.

Im a firm believer that if you throw a consistant 18 dart leg you can win 90% of your matches, if you can log in with 15 dart leg well then it becomes a 95% win ratio, now if you can throw a leg in less than 15 darts then i wouldnt have to go to work for a living.......

I play in 3 different leagues. All 3 leagues have really good players in them.

Monday night is SADA (Sth Aust Dart Association). This is the league that nearly all of the state team play in. In my team alone, we have 3 state men, 1 state lady and 1 state junior.
In this leauge, overall averages will range from 16 per dart through to the top guys on 27-29 per dart. I sit mid way on around a 22 per dart.

Tuesday Night NDDA (Northern Districts Dart Association). This league used to be as strong as Monday's until player unrest caused most of the top flight guys to leave. The top guy in this league is shooting just over 25 per dart. I am sitting in 6th position with just under a 22 per dart.

Wednesday Night WADA ( Western Areas Dart Association). This league is a little less serious than Monday and Tuesday. The top guys are still current or ex state players, but not the big dogs. Again I sit on a 22 per dart and would be about #5 on the average list.

Each of my leagues have lower divisions to cater for all levels of players.

just a few great players in our local leagues Dennis Smith Johnny Haines Paul Cook Paul Boulton Chris Aubrey Mark Cox Mark Thomson Tony Clark Jack Tweddell Josh McCarthy Zac Cross

just a few great players in our local leagues Dennis Smith Johnny Haines Paul Cook Paul Boulton Chris Daglish Darrel Townsend Chris Aubrey Mark Cox Mark Thomson Tony Clark Jack Tweddell Josh McCarthy Zac Cross I know that there are names left off

In my monday night league throwing a steady 60+ average would win you 95%+ of your games, there's probably only 2 or 3 players who regularly throw 60+ in that league and thankfully 2 of them play in my team (me being one of them )!

The friday night league i occasionally play in (due to other commitments i cant manage very often), a 70+ average would probably be enough to win you 90%+ of your games.

Scotland North County games, B Team standard i reckon with a steady 70 average you'd probably win 7 or 8 out of 10 games, A Team you'd need to be nearer 80 to get the same results!

To give you a better idea, last night i checked out a 115 for an 18 dart leg against the darts........ my opponent was left on 250+! Basically i'd be very disappointed to lose a single game this season if i carry on averaging in the 70s since no-one has even got to a finish against me as yet


I've become a big fish in the small pond as regards monday nights league (won the singles, pairs, triples and fours last season........ plus the league ) so i went to test myself at County level. So far this season i'm averaging just over 70, the only game i've lost was playing County 'A' and i was 2-0 up in that game........ missed 7 darts at double in the final leg to win it too Would've been nearer an 80 average if it wasnt for missed doubles! I'm getting closer and closer to bringing my home game to the match arena though so things are going well.

That is the secret to playing well in league Goofy, bringing that practice form out to comp with you.

Congratz on the way your playing to mate. Keep it up.

Strangely enough i used to play my best darts outside of the house....... whether it be league games or just a throw down the pub on a friday with some mates, the alcohol always helped my arm to loosen/relax and for the last two years i've been playing better and better. It's only really been in the last few months that my home game has really kicked on and overtaken my alcohol fuelled game I have tried playing league stone cold sober but my arm just tenses up far too often......... not so much nerves anymore, ive been playing long enough that they dont effect me too much now. I think it's got more to do with the fact that none of the teams in our league have a practice board so you're basically sitting waiting until your game then having a quick 9 darts then you're off........ so i think the alcohol helps there in that it makes my arm looser as if i have been practicing.......... i think Well, thats my theory and im sticking to it!

I find I play better when the competition I play is really good! Last year when I went to the provincial Shoot for the first first time.....I did really good and surprised myself. First round I played the second ranked player in Canada and took the first game off him...missed the doubles in the next 2. Gave myself a chance to take all three and thought that if I can beat him, I can beat anyone here! Ended up making it to the final rd.....based on who had the most points at the end of the day made team Nova Scotia.....missed the team by 6 points!! Real good showing for me....was proud of myself! A lot of the guys that were shooting there are in the top 25 in Canada! Two guys I play with around here are best around....one now is ranked 4th or 5th in Canada....and the other is a past Canadian Champ!
So when I play at home I use the dart pro a lot to keep track of my avg. Avg now is 75....I'm sure that when I'm playing these guys it is higher! Just wish I could afford to travel to these tourneys and ranked events!!!

i have an uncle (colin sharp)that lives in sydney was in stateside for few years was just as good if not better then whitlock but over the last year has just been recovering form cancer operations i dont have all his stats but do know he was high quality player and after seeing him 3 days ago told me a little story about whitlock once said to him in some comp take easy on me you old buggar lol and is looking at making it back into darts again and has inspired me to improve myself i wish him all the luck in the world that he get back to his best

It's tough in this area. Lot's of present & former nationally ranked players.

Brandon Rodgers, John Moorehead, John Kramer, Jim Creedon, Pete Howell, who just beat Larry Butler at Witch City, a few soft tip state champions.

Those are just the "known" players. Some of the best shooters are the guys who don't travel to big tournaments. There's a handful of them around as well.

Although it seems NOBODY wants to play anymore

Well as a comparison where I am. I'm in the bottom of 3 Leagues in the Monday P & D League and averaging 60 in my Singles over 9 matches and Won 7, Lost 2. Last Season I Won the 180's for the Season with 7, this Season so far the Top bloke has hit 4 at the moment.

In the Tuesday Bruce Harrison League which has more or less all the Top guys in Plymouth in it a 60 Average has got me 1 Win and 2 Losses so far. Earlier in the week I was practicing with a guy and hit a 23 average over 3 sets of 14 legs (practice for our Thursday Premier League) and lost 8-5, Won 8-5 and lost 8-2. So a steady 23 average over 36 legs and went down 21-15 altogether.

In the Premier League last Season I Won 6 out of my 12 matches again throwing fairly consistently. The 2 County teams we have down here Devon and Cornwall have a lot of good guys playing for them and then we have even more that are just as good not playing for them.

I think it's all relevant to on the day. I can and have thrown Sessions were I'm between 14 and 18 darts for a sustained period of 10 legs which would let me challenge more or less everyone down here, however, that word "CONSISTENCY" comes to the front again. If I could do it consistently I'd definitely be going for Q-School!!

There are some serious players in my area (former county captain, county players, Chief engineer for target darts, players who've made the UK open etc .... and thats just the lads on my wednesday team !!)

all most as good as me HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I throw me patent 8 darter and see how they like that , oops that Chuck Norris who can do that.